Grace Witter  0:06  
Assalamu alaikum you're listening to tech sisters stories. Tech sisters is a community that supports Muslim women in tech through storytelling and sisterhood. My name is Grace, and I get to interview the amazing women in our community share their stories and the lessons they learned. I hope you enjoyed the show.

Okay, today on tech sisters stories, we have Nina Nduwayo. Nina, is an experienced data scientist and consultant and a senior data analyst. She specialises in solving complex challenges, using data to identify opportunities and enable clients to make smarter data different decisions. Nina is an active advocate for encouraging people from underrepresented backgrounds enter tech, and was recently listed as one of the 10 eminent black women in UK tech, inspiring others and making waves in 2021 by UK tech news. We are so excited to welcome Nina as our latest tech sisters. Thank you so much for coming on, Nina.

Nina Nduwayo  1:08  
Thank you for having me. It's an honour and really excited to like discover what you guys do alhamdulillah.

Grace Witter  1:15  
So great. So how about we start at the very beginning? How did you first get into tech,

Nina Nduwayo  1:20  
I always say this, I almost stumbled my way into tech. So initially, I studied medicine at University of Cambridge. And two years in, I realised that I wasn't necessarily cut out for medicine, in the way that everyone else around me was so passionate about what they were doing. And that's all they were talking about. But literally all that consumed them. Whereas I couldn't wait to put my books away and kind of like, go hang out with people from my business society or other societies. And while I was there I discovered enterpreneurship and technology. And that's where I got introduced to the concept that you can actually do this as a job. It can't just be a hobby, and I met other people who were working in computer science. And I got introduced to coding, which is really interesting. So during my summer holidays, I would kind of try and learn HTML, CSS, like the basics, just to get myself acknowledged with the like the way the coding works. And yeah, sort of fell in love with it in a way. So I find myself just wanting to know more and more. And every time I'd learn more, that kind of like discover all these other areas that I didn't know about. And that's how I found myself in the world of tech. And the first job I got was in a startup company that looked after like food discovery online. And they had a really big tech team. So I'd kind of talked to the developers and see what they were doing. And that sort of gravitated me into the software development side of things, that as I went to more and more meetups and met more people in the industry, I discovered data analysis and data science. And that's where like, I guess, my science background, and my interest in coding kind of collided, I found myself wanting to know more and be in that space a lot more. And from that I found first job as a data analyst, that allowed me to learn a bit more about the area, and then slowly progressed my way up to data science,

Grace Witter  3:09  
alhamdulillah. So it sounds like you've really followed your curiosity. When you found something that you're interested in, you went for it and studied it, learn more, and then made other connections and went in other directions.

Nina Nduwayo  3:23  
Absolutely. And I think looking back at my decision to study medicine, I did the opposite. I sort of decided that this is what I wanted to do, because it seemed like a good job. And it seemed like a secure profession, well respected, good pay, kind of like a stable job. And then I made all of my decisions based on that. So I started going to like activities and events that would help me get into medicine. Whereas with getting into data was the opposite. It almost started out as an interest. And then out of the interest, I found opportunities that allowed me to use that as part of my job. But even in my own free time, I was still curious and interested in knowing like, Okay, how does this aspect work that I've just heard about one in an article or so at a meetup. So it was still a combination of like me just wanting to know more about the area out of curiosity and interest, as opposed to me wanting to do this, because that's what like, is required for the profession.

Grace Witter  4:20  
So maybe less focus on the expected results and more on those individual details that are really in sparking interest and excitement for you.

Nina Nduwayo  4:32  
Definitely, I think if we can find something that gives you some element of enjoyment in your day to day job, then I so I remember when I was beginning out in this whole process, I started out with just learning coding. And I found that really interesting. And as I started learning more about data analysis and data science, I was gravitating more towards that. So initially, it was a case of like, okay, exposing myself to the different things that you can do in the tech world. And then eliminating the ones that actually I'm not really 100% motivated by or keen on. And following the ones that genuinely like sparked an interest in me. So then slowly started to narrow my field and say, Actually, I'm not really sure I want to become a back end developer, for example, or a front end developer, I seem to be falling more towards the data analysis data science world. And then even within the data science world, I'm constantly having to make decisions of like, Okay, do I want to go down the data engineering? Or do I want to go down like the data science research route, or, you know, just stick with like machine learning, engineering, and so on. So it's constantly, I guess, a case of trying to evaluate where your interests lie, where you naturally gravitate towards? And then making choices based on that and try to eliminate the areas that you like, not particularly fond of, like admin, which is mine?

Grace Witter  5:49  
Yeah, no, that's one of the questions that we get asked the most from people who are just starting their tech journeys. Maybe like you they decide to transition into it at uni, or you're maybe later in life. And one of the questions asked the most is, where do I even start? What is sort of like the minimum thing that I need to learn to get a job right away? And I find that question very difficult to answer, because tech is so vast, it is. It's so hard to describe, and just pick one thing that you could say to them, yeah, just learn that and you'll be fine.

Nina Nduwayo  6:23  
And that's the thing, it's so different, because like different companies are looking for very different things. Yeah. So it's not that if you do this particular course, then that's it, you're guaranteed a job. I always say go for any opportunity that comes your way. And then based on that, you can start to make more informed decisions of what it is you actually really enjoy and what it is that you don't like. And sometimes Actually, it's not the technical stuff that you find off putting, or you found that you really enjoy is the soft skills, which is harder to gauge them. Oh, actually, if I do this at boot camp, then I'm ready to go. And I'm also gonna become a software developer.

Grace Witter  6:57  
No, I definitely agree. I think there's, there's a certain level of foundational knowledge that you need just to get started. But beyond that, I think the best way that someone can learn and discover their interests is to work on these different projects. You start building things that interest you, and work with people who are sharing similar interests and build like really cool things. And then you're going to find what's interesting to you, you're going to find you're narrowing that focus, and then you're building things to your portfolio. So it's you know, you can't lose.

Nina Nduwayo  7:32  
And I guess that's like the most The easiest way to get keep yourself motivated as you're working on something that you actually genuinely like, believe in or are passionate about. So you're not really thinking about all the end result, you know, I have to keep doing this. It doesn't feel like a chore. Yeah, exactly.

Grace Witter  7:47  
So that's a good segue into this next question for you. So when you're looking at doing your work, and you're thinking about how to help your clients make these smart data driven decisions, what's motivating your work? And what's keeping it exciting for you?

Nina Nduwayo  8:00  
I think, for me, it's always the problem itself. Like I find myself getting lost in the work when I've got a challenge that I've come across, but I'm not quite sure how to solve immediately. And it's a case of trying to figure out, Okay, how do I even approach this? How do I begin, that's the bit that really gets me excited and kind of gets me going. Once I have started the challenging problem, there's often a phase where you just go through the frustration of not figuring it out. You're just kind of like banging your head against the wall, you know, I've tried so many different methods, and nothing seems to be clicking. And then I often find just taking a break and coming back at an hour, two hours later, something in my brain often just clicks and it's like, yeah, that's that was a solution all along, it should have just stuck with a square. So for me is, is the problem solving aspect that I really enjoy. And then also just seeing the benefit it has on the clients, and seeing like how it helps them make their jobs easier. I also find quite rewarding. So we're working on a really tough problem. I think that's partly what drives me is just to know that it's going to benefit someone in the long run, and it's going to hopefully, reduce someone's stress or make their life easier.

Grace Witter  9:07  
I really love those points, Mashallah. I think it's so when we focus on the benefit to the clients, or the impact that our work has, it brings a lot more meaning to it than just hacking away and looking at the screen all day long, and it puts some meaning behind it right.

Nina Nduwayo  9:27  
Definitely. And I guess sometimes it can feel quite monotonous when you've done something for the fourth time. But it's reminding yourself that it's for a different purpose each time. For example, we do some web site implementations where you have to like set up the tracking to ensure that the business has the information they need to make decisions. And after you've done the fourth or fifth implementation, we can start to get quite similar. Websites might be different, but a lot of the build itself are quite similar. So what I tend to do is kind of give myself that initial pep talk just being like Okay, this is for a different purpose this time, so you can't slack off, you have to kind of like do it as if it's your first time, and then just enjoy the process, I guess. And often what tends to happen is you end up learning something new along the way. But had I not done it at all? Probably wouldn't have picked up. So, yeah, I found that it always ends up being a good learning experiences on Alhamdulillah.

Grace Witter  10:20  
Yeah, that's true. So like what you said about when you're really stuck, to take a break for a couple hours and come back to it? I think that is, I think that's a universal thing. But it's very hard to know when to take that break. But soon as we let ourselves do that just just step away, then the answer comes. Definitely,

Nina Nduwayo  10:44  
I found. So I don't know about you. But generally, I find that when I'm working on a challenge, I can get very lost in that. I find myself missing feature for hours. And it's often at that point where my eyes are like, No, I can't take this anymore that I'm like, yep, it's time to take a break. Walk away, and I will come back in, like an hour, two hours and see if you know, we have a fresh perspective on this.

Grace Witter  11:05  
That's it. Yeah, I think because when we get into the habit of problem solving, is you just get dive deeper and deeper down into it. And you just can't have any perspective anymore. Because you're surrounded by this code.

Nina Nduwayo  11:20  
Definitely, oh, I have to say one thing that's really, really helpful is the salah because, for me, it forces me away from the computer. So there's been moments when I've been stuck on something and now I have to get away because I have like, you know, duhur is about to finish. And then after praying, I come back and I'm like, Oh, actually, that wasn't that big of a problem.

Grace Witter  11:42  
hamdulillah I know exactly what you mean. Okay, so the next question, what challenges or setbacks? have you encountered maybe in your career, or maybe thinking about a specific project? And maybe what did you do to get through those and keep going?

Nina Nduwayo  11:59  
 challenges and setbacks? I think initial challenge, I guess, a challenge and a setback was when I made the decision to leave medicine. Sure. So this was, oh God, like quite a few years ago, about seven years ago from not mistaken. And at that time, I didn't really know what the alternative was. Medicine, you often don't have like a pretty mapped out route in terms of where you're going to end up, or the multiple paths that you can take to one destination, I suppose. And having gone through that, in our mind, that kind of like mentally made a ban of like, I'm going to become a surgeon, I'm going to go into neurosurgery. And I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that. And then to just like abandon all of that, and suddenly decide to go to something that's completely, like on path was scary. And for me, the biggest challenge was just kind of like, redefine what it is that I wanted to do in that process. So kind of re examining all my motive that intentions, and making more of an informed decision each time. So I kind of like stripped it back completely and said, Okay, I'm just going to find a job. And it doesn't matter which industry I'm in, I'll just find a job. And then once I'm in the world, like business world, I'll start to decide in that process. But I knew that regardless, I'd have to work super hard just to kind of make up for the fact that I didn't have the typical academic background for people coming into these fields. And especially in technology, I found that a lot of the times that was kind of second guessing myself at the beginning, whenever it make a decision of like, oh, but is it the right one? How am I supposed to be sure, so I'd spend, God knows how many hours just researching all the alternative options before I made a decision. And I found that it worked in my favour because it meant that I was exposed to more and more things in the process. So whenever I made one decision, it kind of like go through 10 different things, for me to realise that the first one was the right one, but a left versus I was exposed to nine other things that I could potentially go like as choose an option. And then slowly with experience, I started to get my confidence. So then it became less about like, you know, my background and what I studied, and more about just like what skills i'd gained and where I wanted to go going forward so that it was just more about Okay, giving myself more exposure to other projects where I can learn more of the things that I'm interested in. And then also doing that in my own personal time. So finding the time to learn about areas that I was interested in. And then the current challenge now is balancing that ambition of wanting to learn more and upskill as well as doing other things like learning Arabic and Islamic sciences and still being present with the family and is finding a way to balance everything without compromising one or the other

Grace Witter  14:33  
martial law that is the ultimate trick is that that's so good that you're still able to study Islamic sciences while doing balancing family and work obligations as well as is really really good Mashallah.

Nina Nduwayo  14:49  
I'm very grateful. The centre where I learn is so accommodating. So, you spend a lot of time with the with the teachers learning, but they also understand that all of us are professionals. So We do tend to have like what work demands on someone. So where it gets quite busy, they allow you to sort of pull back a little. And then when you have a bit more time, you can kind of come back in and go and spend more time studying and kind of putting more effort in. But I think it's just a regular contact that I really enjoy, because it means that I have an escape from work and all the other stresses of life.

Grace Witter  15:22  
Yeah, that's really excellent. I think that for a lot of women, especially once they start working, or once they have kids, they sort of don't even consider studying Islamic sciences as a possibility anymore, because they don't have that chunk of time, but used to be required to really get into it. By 100. Now, there's, there's, it's really flexible. And there's a lot of ways to incorporate it into our lives without making too much of a sacrifice.

Nina Nduwayo  15:48  
Definitely. And there's so many online with like platforms now to kind of study at your own pace, and the materials readily available. So I guess it's a question of when you can find time, making it a priority and knowing that it's important for you, because that's what I've struggled as well with Islamic Sciences is making that time myself, knowing that it is important, and I have to kind of prioritise it over other things, but it's worth it. I can't emphasise how important it is alhamdulillah.

Grace Witter  16:17  
I'm curious, Nina, as you're describing that, in that when you decided to leave medicine, and you're going into this unknown, as curious what your family's reaction was to all of this, because I think in our communities, it's there's a lot of meaning behind going into medicine and being a doctor. And then to turn away from that and to go into something that is really not a lot of people have done it. So what kind of reaction Did you get from them?

Nina Nduwayo  16:40  
Do you know what when I started medicine, I think in the first year, my mom made a comment because my mom studied accounting, and she was an accountant for a few years. She was just like, I don't think you're, you're into medicine. And I think she just made it as a passing comment said, Why don't you consider accounting? Another time because it was the first year and was like, really better than I thought, No, there's no way I'd ever consider anything. But medicine, I've worked so hard to get into it. So I was just like a brush it off. And when I did finally make the decision, I think she was worried, but part of her knew that he was coming. Because she could see that it wasn't something that naturally came to me or that I gravitated towards. And it helps that my sister was already studying to become a doctor. She's two years older than me. So she only has one and you can go on with your life do something worked out well. But no, she's been super supportive. And I think one other thing I've really appreciated is the fact that she's allowed me to make that time investment to also kind of upskill in my own time, because I do come from a computer science background. So a lot of the things I learned were in my own personal time, right, which meant that I didn't have enough time to kind of help around the house as much as other like, the expectation is I suppose, and she was okay with me kind of investing that time in my work. And knowing that inshAllah will pay off in the future  that's definitely the

Grace Witter  18:06  
alhamdulillah, okay, you do a lot of work in inclusivity. And diversity you do outreach for for black and data. And you've been a member of Masonic makers for a long time. And I know that you do a lot of diversity work. So with that experience, what are some actionable steps that workplaces can take to the genuine about diversity, and ensure that people from underrepresented backgrounds can feel safe and confident when they're at work?

Nina Nduwayo  18:31  
I think for me, the biggest learning experience in this conversation has been around the blackout Tuesday. Yeah. And then since that happened, I noticed that a lot of companies and employers were open to having a conversation. And in the person having those conversations, I realised that one thing I guess, even the first step is just being willing to learn and hear about other people's experiences. Because often for myself as well, it's hard for me to imagine what someone who hasn't been through my life and hasn't been through my similar experiences goes through day to day, what their challenges are, and what their fears and what their worries are when they come into the workplace. So for me, the first thing would be having a conversation and being like, open and frank about what it is it's actually affecting you as a minority, but also on the other side, being open to hearing what those challenges are and working together to address them. And not feeling like Oh, actually someone is putting putting you on the spot and blaming you for what's going on. They're just saying this, these are the things that I come in with as baggage is in the workplace day to day and I have to think about and once you have this conversation 100 I found that actually a lot of people are open to kind of accommodating where they can, for example, the issue with prayer. Like I think one of the biggest things I had when I started working was how to have a conversation of actually I need to pray five times a day. And some of those powers fold during working hours, especially in winter. Some of those might like three prayers might fall into the working hours like back to back to back. So it's kind of having those conversations Fairly on and saying, How do I accommodate this with everything else that my job requires of me, and then knowing that the employer or your manager is going to be open to hearing it, and not dismiss it as a economic issue. So for me, I think that's one thing that can help really make people feel like themselves in the workplace not have to worry about their faith or their race or any of the identity markers. And then the other thing, I guess, is kind of where we can try to reach out and doing activities to encourage people to enter these fields. So I've noticed for myself, like at the background I come from not many people knew about the tech industry. Growing up, it was always medicine, law or some form of business. And part of that is because we didn't really see people who looked like us, or just generally, we didn't see many people in those industries talking about their experiences and how they got in. And kind of widening that participation to say that anyone can get into it. It's not an elite group only. And so one thing that I'm really keen on is showing younger people who are about to go into college, the know before they make the decisions, or like which a levels are going to choose where they like, what options are available to them. So I think one conversation I had recently, which really struck me was, you have people, especially with football, who are really interested in sports, they're like really keen on kind of pursuing something in that field. But they also have these pressures, I guess, from their family and community saying that no, there's no stability or security those areas. So you should do something that's more professional. But actually, you can find a way to combine the two. So for example, we have people work in sports analytics, where they combine like their data analysis and their technology interest with their area of interest, which is sports, and you're able to work together the two together to kind of find a fulfilling job. And for me, it's just being able to say that don't limit yourself to these particular areas, just because you think those are the only areas that are open to you. There are more options available and Alhamdulillah. There are more companies who are looking to fill those gaps, because they recognise that it is a lot harder for people from like disadvantaged backgrounds to get into Alhamdulillah.

Grace Witter  22:03  
Yes, I think there's a really important points. One thing that kind of sparked when you were talking about having that conversation at work and being able to share your experiences with them. I think that, well, maybe you can inform it some more. But I feel like there is a barrier before people feel comfortable and safe to do that. That, especially if you're starting a new job. And that might be the best time to ask for a pair space. But when you're in a new place, you don't want to be seen as admin, that's not fitting into the culture. So maybe, how do you think people should start that conversation?

Nina Nduwayo  22:41  
It's really difficult. I remember when I started my thing was my second job. So this sort of been around 2016 2017, I watched one of those YouTube videos of a Muslim brother talking about how he got into the meeting, like during his interviews, and I think he just been told he was successful. And he said that he has to take Friday's off because of Friday, Chris, and that for him is a, I guess, like a holiday. So he'd like to have that day off. And then the manager said, Okay, fine, we can make working arrangements for that. And I remember thinking like, well, if he can ask for a whole day, I'm sure it can last for an hour here. So what I went did, I was like, let me see what's the worst that can happen? I mean, they've already recruited me. So hopefully, they wouldn't like turn me around and say, No, that's it. We don't want you. And I just had a conversation to say like, I have Friday prayers, and I would really like to be able to tell them, can I please take a long lunch break on Friday? I'll make up the hours. And my manager was like, yeah, sure, that's fine. And then I think from that I just got the confidence to ask whenever go to other places or like conferences, I would just ask for an empty room and say, can I create that little corner there? That seems quiet? Like I wouldn't disturb anyone. I'll just kind of do my thing, finish and leave. And then slowly from just asking and seeing that people's responses went negative? Yeah, most of the time. I agree. The confidence to just keep asking but there have been moments where I found it particularly difficult so I've kind of I don't know if you have that experience where you're in a meeting and you know, like the prototype is about a protrudes of black close to ending and you're just like oh please finish please finish talking second cone pray and then I you finished praying you rush around try

Grace Witter  24:21  
to rush out Yeah, yeah. Corner you're just like, okay, open Park, where the viewers will default. Which can get awkward if it's like snowing or raining, you know? Yeah, 101 of the things I was thinking when you said that, when we're in an interview. Do you think that's a good time to say these statements to kind of assess how open a company is to accommodating you or how open they would be to listening to your experiences and making you feel valued and heard.

Nina Nduwayo  24:58  
It's a difficult one because I think it The interview phase, you're kind of waiting to see if they'll just accept your qualifications, for example, or just you as a person to fulfil that role. I often find once you've got the offer, then it's best to bring those conversations up. Because at that point, they've already made the commitment. They've seen that, you know, we want you to come and deliver this job. And we've invested this whole like effort to try to find you. So at that point, you've kind of already committed. And I think that's where you have a little bit more room to say, okay, actually, these are the things that are really important to me. And it becomes more of a negotiation to say, you know, are you, I guess, think of it from like a physical illness perspective. For example, if I had broken neck, and I needed to add a new What do people have broken neck, we'd crash. I needed walking sticks out something accommodation, reasonable accommodations? And it's just one of those things where you'd have that conversation with them to be like, Look, in order to make my job easier. These are some of the things that would really help. And is there a way that you can accommodate them and where they can't, and I've had like, some companies say that, no, we don't actually have a prayer space. But we can set up a separate like, you know, booking for you. So you can book the meeting rooms, or they've like, said, you know, we can find a corner somewhere. It's not the most ideal place to pray. But it allows you to have that like solitude, so you can concentrate, and you're not kind of worrying about people walking in, and so on. So think, yeah, just having that conversation with them early on, and seeing where they stand. And especially at the point where you've got the offer, it allows you to then figure out like, okay, is this somewhere where I feel like they are willing to meet me halfway, or they're kind of willing to accommodate my needs, before you've made the commitment, it helps. But also, once you have started already, you can still have those conversations, it's never too late. And I guess I'm saying I don't know the answer. Thank you really comes down to an individual and how they feel. Because you can gauge when you're having a conversation with someone how open they are to hearing you out?

Grace Witter  26:58  
Yes, I think that is kind of the underlying thing is, is going to be different for the individual, it's going to be different for each situation that you're in. And I do like what you said that comes with practice, that the more you ask, the less of a big deal, it seems. I mean, because really, when you're asking for prayer time, it's what like five minutes, and just a space for five minutes, and people go on smoking breaks or coffee breaks for much longer than that. So it's really not a big thing that we're asking for, you know,

Nina Nduwayo  27:27  
I guess especially for like most women you do you're visibly Muslim. Yeah. Where, for example. So I think there is a little bit of a hostility that comes with them in workplaces, sometimes. So I can understand the fear of like not wanting to make yourself stand out even more. Yes. I think one of the worries I had at the beginning. And I still do sometimes is where you feel like oh, because I'm taking especially winter, you know, I'm taking three breaks to go and pray. And this might be during my lunch hour. But I still feel like people might question my commitment to my work, they might think that I'm slacking off. Because, you know, I keep going out of the building three times a day, to learn to pray. Whereas if I was going out to you know, buy lunch or to go to the shops to get something, I wouldn't even consider it right.

Grace Witter  28:11  
You wouldn't even tell them that you're doing that.

Nina Nduwayo  28:16  
It's more of a mental thing. I think I've had to learn to kind of talk myself out of them and say, Well, no, actually, this is really important. I have to pray. And if I don't pray, I'm probably not going to concentrate on my work. And then it's just a downhill spiral lassoed. Best thing for me and the employer is if I go and pray one time, and then come back, and I can concentrate

Grace Witter  28:36  
hamdulillah. Okay, Nina, and what is the thing that you're most proud of? So this could be in your career, or in your personal life, it's something that is really special to you, and you feel really excited talking about it.

Nina Nduwayo  28:50  
I guess for me, it's, in the last two years or so, at station 10, I've had the opportunity to kind of develop the data science proposition. And Panda, we've managed to like grow it into a full fledged service that we offer our clients. And it's actually generated quite a bit of like revenue. And for me, knowing that I came from knowing very little about this field completely like zero, to suddenly being able to build a service where people are asking for this offering, and they're asking to pay for it. It's just like mind blowing. So 100 Eric, I think it's been one of my biggest lessons as well, in that might not know what, what the path is or how I'm planning to get there. And I guess, in the process, I did worry quite a lot. And like, I'd worried if I could ever get to that point. But somehow it kind of fell into place in its in its own way. And of course that's through Allah And for me, it's just been like, a lesson of patience, and not overthinking things are not overwhelming just knowing that if something is meant to be or happen and in the process I guess it's just enjoying what you're doing and trying to just keep focused on what the end goal is. From the day it's been, it's been one of the biggest learnings for me, I think it's not over stressing about where I want to be in a couple of years and how I'm going to get there. And just enjoying the process of like, Okay, this is where I am now. And this is what I can do to try and get there, but not worry too much about the end goal.

Grace Witter  30:22  
Alhamdulillah Yeah, and that's, that ties in so perfectly with what we were saying at the very beginning, but how you're focused on the details and the processes. And that's so much the end results.

Nina Nduwayo  30:33  
Exactly, I think it worked really well, because like, it was more organic in a way that sort of fell into place. So it was more of a case of, I'd learned a few things for meetups, and I came back and I thought, Oh, actually, I could apply this at this like in the current project that I'm working on. And then through that, having conversations in the senior leadership team and saying that this could be a thing, and they already were thinking about it, I guess, they just needed that catalyst to get it started. And I've heard that I had like amazing directors who were happy for me to kind of take ownership of it and direct it and kind of push it along. And in that process, we came up with a service that really worked well with the company. And they're still growing and kind of still being developed further. But for me, it's just knowing that it went from an interest. And suddenly there was a curious about to it being something that we're now offering to clients, and it's helping them develop their abilities internally.

Grace Witter  31:27  
100 smiling so much just because I can feel. It just feels so great to listen to that. And that journey that you went through. And the results are so good. 100 I'm really happy for you.

Nina Nduwayo  31:38  
Yeah, I think for me, it is one of the lessons of just kind of like to work within a lot. And knowing that he's got the best plans, like you might think that something didn't happen. And it means that at the end, but actually there's so many more options, and I guess it's just being patient and kind of knowing that whatever is meant to be will happen. There is no point stressing over it. And I know it's easier said than done. But I'm try to remind myself this every time I start to stress and I'm like nope, just remember that you'll have but if it's meant to be That's right. 100.

Grace Witter  32:07  
Okay, so which is a good segue here. So what's something in your journey that you regret, or you wish you did differently without regret? Because I always regret how I spend my time. Okay.

Nina Nduwayo  32:21  
Generally, I find, I mentioned that I've been studying Islamic sciences, and I signed up to it like three years ago, it started with just Arabic, and then they slowly eased us into like the Islamic sciences. And it's so interesting, and honestly, the amount of content that we cover and the discussions that we have, like I couldn't replace it for the world. But I wish I just put more time and effort into making the most out of it, I find that half the time I'm either really tired, or a really bad student, it's suddenly like actually following up on my after reading, and so on. And if I look back, I think that all comes down to time management. So it's just a case of like, not really understanding when I should be taking breaks, and when I should be pushing myself and how to structure my day so that I can get my work done, and then have enough energy to do my studies as well. So yeah, that for me has been the biggest, like, I guess, regret. And it's something that I'm actively trying to work on something currently doing time schedules and being like, Okay, I need to put in breaks, I need to make sure that happening. Like time to exercise I can feel refreshed just before the classes. And I also need to make sure that I follow up on my my class work. So I can hand it in and get a better gauge of how we're doing. Yes, Nayla Perla Baraka and your time, you're able to do all these things.

Grace Witter  33:38  
I mean, for everyone listening. And the last question I have for you today, Nina, what something is someone in your tech journey that you feel so grateful for?

Nina Nduwayo  33:49  
Oh my god, there's so many. I have to say 100 I've met some incredible women through this process. So my first ever job, the one where I was working for a free discovery company, I had a female manager. And she was very ambitious that she was one of those go getters, you could just tell from the way that she kind of approached things. And from her I kind of learned and she's mixed race black American. And I think just seeing her own her space and kind of be unapologetically herself, while still aiming for the best I suppose that instils that confidence in me to say that actually, this shouldn't matter. I should be able to just kind of set my goals and push through him for whatever I want to do so from the deck from her kind of lent them. And then my next manager was also a woman. She was like very detail oriented, but also very like, assertive when she knew that she was in the right and she knew that something should be done the way that she's describing it because she had the data to back it up. She will often just hold her ground, which is something that I had like never seen before because often you're taught to be like soft spoken. Be gentle. When you see like a move someone doing something trying to convince them but don't be pushy. You know, it works for her. She was like, No, no, I'm right. There's no I'm gonna let you do this. Knowing that I'm right. So yeah, I'm I kind of learned how to just learn to like be confident and assertive without being brush, if you see what I mean. That's Yep, definitely. And then, of course, like there's so many other women from like the networks I've been part of where you can just see people wanting to do more for their communities, putting a lot of effort and their own personal time and resources to make it happen. And seeing how many people were putting together like meetups to help other women learn about coding, learn about data science, and then putting together like workshops to help you upskill get a bit more experienced, like personal experience of hackathons where it wasn't competitive was just more an day that you could spend with other women learning about a particular like programme and put stuff together just to get you in that frame of mind of like, Okay, this is how you'd appreciate if you were to do it on your own. That, for me, has been the biggest, the biggest inspiration in the sense that every time I came out of this sort of environment, I'd always come back feeling energised. And also feeling like yeah, I can't do it. When I'm doubting myself, I just remind myself that there's so many other women who are doing pretty incredible stuff. And also still being selfless and giving their own time and their own efforts to help others enter the field. I think that's been my biggest inspiration. And yeah, from there, I pray that they will continue to do what they're doing and benefit more people. Because we do need more women in this space, the power of the sisterhood. It's just a very different energy when you're surrounded by other women who are supporting you and kind of encouraging you but not in a competitive like, you know, yeah, oh, look what I've done. Look what I've done. It's more like, look what we can do together.

Grace Witter  36:44  
It's very genuine, very warm. It's nice. Is there anything else that you'd like to say Nina, any last words of wisdom,

Nina Nduwayo  36:58  
I guess if there's anyone who's considering entering the field or just experimented with it, I would say, give it a go. And the like, I've benefited so much from this industry. And I can see the possibilities. And it excites me. And I guess I just want other people's experiences, I guess, my sister who's in medicine and my other sister who's a radiographer, I keep trying to get them to like learn coding, they're not interested. But like at least just understand, because now you can mix your medical background with the technology and like become the next governor, where you combine your domain expertise and medicine with a little bit of understanding of how technology works. So you could do something that serves you any community. So yeah, like I would say, everyone, it's worth exploring and just familiarising yourself with how it works. If it if you don't plan to go into it, just understand the options that he offers. When you do like want to use it.

Grace Witter  37:53  
I would add to that, that if anyone is interested in getting started in tech, there's so many no code and low code platforms where the barrier to entry is so small, you can get started and just literally drag and drop your code and you can start seeing your ideas come to life. You don't have to study you don't have to invest a whole lot of time just to get started and spark the initial interest. Definitely, the best way to that is to actually do something exactly, is just have a little bit of a play, and then it starts to fall into place in a fall. So that's what you can do. The handler, thank you so much. It was so good talking to you today. Likewise, thank you for having me. I hope you like that story as much as I did. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to it. Please consider following us and leaving a review. If you liked this episode, that really helps us a lot. And if you're a Muslim woman in tech, please go ahead and join a community. It's free. It's fun, supportive. It's a great time. That's all for me. Sorry.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai