Today on Tech Sisters Stories we’re excited to have Safa Ghribi!
Safa is a full stack developer at Microsoft, and an expert in NodeJS, Electron, Angular and React with quite a certification collection! She also did her university studies in 3 different countries: Tunisia, France, and Canada.
Listen To Safa’s Story
Key Lessons from this Episode
- Never limit your ambitions 11:00
- Safa’s advice for getting into top tech companies like Unity and Microsoft 15:30
- Don’t focus too much on work; have a healthy life balance 23:30
Grace: As Salaam alaikum, you’re listening to Tech Sisters stories. Tech Sisters is a community that supports Muslim women in tech through storytelling and sisterhood. My name is grace. And I get to interview the amazing women in our community, share their stories and the lessons they learned.
Today we have Safa Ghribi who mashAllah is so sweet and so wonderful to talk to you. I’ve really, really enjoyed our conversation. She has a beautiful story. There’s lots to learn here and I hope you enjoy the show.
Today on Tech Sisters stories we’re super excited to have Safa Ghribi. Safa is a full-stack developer at Microsoft, and she’s an expert in Node JS, electron, angular, react. And she has quite a certification collection. mashAllah. Also Safa has done her university studies, three different countries. She did Tunisia, France, and Canada.
So mashallah, quite a journey and lots of languages too. I expect. So happy to have you on.
Safa: And so happy to be here today, grace, and thank you for the opportunity.
How Safa got into tech
Grace: So where does your story start, safa? How did you get into tech?
Safa: Yeah, I actually, I used to like math a lot since I was a kid, which is an unpopular opinion to be the kid who likes math and yeah, we’ll always want to get good marks in it.
Maybe because like my dad and my uncles are all math teachers. Like at a young age that used to give me like small equations and smaller problems to solve. So that developed with that side of me. And I always thought I’ll do math for my whole life until I go to university. And I felt like math is too theoretical and doesn’t have that much effect in the society.
math teachers were always working on theories and books, but it doesn’t really show a lot of impact on the society. At that time we were just starting like learning coding and computer science, which seemed to need that same set of skills or thinking logical thinking.
But at the same time, you can see the result of your work and your thinking in something that actually works and makes people’s life easier. I knew that I really liked that. I enjoy doing it. There was an impact, there was a potential in it to go further. So yeah, I went on and I finished all my studies in computer science.
Grace: Yeah, that’s wonderful. It’s interesting that you’re starting from the math standpoint because I feel like a lot of people are actually put off from tech because they’re scared of the math.
So I taught myself how to code. I didn’t have a computer science degree. And from the coding that I do, which is mostly front end, math, hasn’t really become a factor. Do you feel like the math that you learned at that academic level, do you feel like that was a major part of the computer science that you’re doing?
Safa: I wouldn’t say like, it’s a major part, but still a part of it. There’s like a part of hardwork and like training and getting to learn languages and all the specificities. But after all, like when you were up to solve big problems in a more performant way in a in a maintainable way, you got to think about all the.
Details and the edge cases got to think about the memory usage. You got to think about the performance of your app or product. All that comes a bit to like some mathematical equations . To like solving some more complex algorithmic stuff, dynamic programming. Having that background kind of helps a bit.
Grace: I think the essential part is that logical way of thinking and breaking down those very complex problems into solvable bits and then having a very algorithmic view of how to make a solution. Less so than three years of calculus, which can help, but not necessarily for that.
Safa: I’m now going to say, like every single course I did, the math was very like important. I don’t even remember how full grades, honestly, it’s been awhile.
Grace: I don’t get to tell this story that often it’s really funny when I was in university I started off doing an engineering degree doing bioengineering.
And so of course, math is such a big part of that. My professor she was a calculus professor, married to a calculus professor. And they, they had children who they were homeschooling themselves. one time the whole class did very badly on an exam. And so she brought in her kids who were like 12 solving questions.
They were solving all of the exam problems that we got wrong in front of us.
Very humbling. And then she referred to her kids as her math monkeys. So
very, very serious.
Safa: I don’t really agree with her way of like humbling you, but I still like, it’s nice to watch calculus monkeys
Grace: yeah, that’s it. Yeah. I don’t think it really inspired us to do better at math. It just made us feel worse
Her work so far
Grace: okay. So mashAllah, let’s see, you’ve gotten into computer science because you want to make more applications and have an impact in, you know, just see the effects of your work. And in your work so far, so you’ve worked at unity and now at Microsoft. How do you feel like that’s come to fruition?
Safa: Yeah. I was lucky to be working on like core products in both companies. So a unity, I worked on an app that used by millions of people. Mainly like game developers to create a project, build them and install the tools I needed for their, game projects.
Also I made them all the licensing stuff and everything. So for me, having the user experience in the center of our work is very important. Even as a developer, not as a designer, we needed always to think of , how is this feature perceived by our users? And is this a good, nice flow or is it too much clicks to get something done?
So you can feel that you’re final goal is always to make this tool usable and easily usable and enjoyable by the user. Same thing with Microsoft. I’m part of the Oxo organization, which takes care of that all the office suite. Word PowerPoint and one drive. So you can imagine the number of data we have and the number of users, billions, I’d say.
And yeah, we do receive like a lot of feedback. It’s like, oh, I wish this would work this way. Or this blocked me for awhile. And it’s like, what they say in Microsoft, be customer obsessed. Put users period. Which makes you think, yeah, I’m making people’s life better.
It feels nice. It’s like, even if it’s a small bug and you see a lot of people saying, oh, finally, it’s fixed. You know? So you say, oh yeah, I did something. I made people’s life better today. Yeah,
Grace: that’s really encouraging. I’m glad that you had that. I hope that you don’t have the opposite where someone’s posting in a forum about a negative change.
Safa: Oh, there’s always that to get used to that do not take it personally. Sometimes you do even good upgrades and they’re like, no, I wanted the
Grace: oldest. Don’t like this.
Safa: Yeah. Resisting for change. And it’s like, just try it. It’s better. I promise when they’re like, Bring it back the way it is.
That’s normal. There’s always people who don’t like the stuff there’s always bug. There’s no such thing as a perfect product. And yeah, as a developer you just learn to take just the constructive part of that criticism and yeah. Do not take it personally at all.
Developing for developers vs developing for general public
Grace: interesting that you mentioned you were developing a product used by other developers at unity and at Microsoft, you’re doing something that’s for much wider user base. Is that a different mindset for you going in there with those different use cases?
Safa: Actually, it’s that mindset that made me move from unity to Microsoft. Because I’m not a gamer. Unity is like all about gaming and it’s the big company for gaming right now. I really liked working there. There’s a good atmosphere. The culture there is perfect. And I owe them all,, what am I where I am today? Because they were like empowering as a workspace and they will always put me forward and encourage me to learn more.
So. Yeah, but I still couldn’t put myself in the user’s shoes because I’m, I’ve never been a user. Or understand their experience and live through their frustrations. So, yeah. And it has been a bit of blocker for me, so I’m always like I do something and then, oh, so they’re supposed to use this way.
Okay. And good to know. Yeah. And I wanted to go for something wider is something that I know, like my grandma, my mom is using word. My dad is using excel. So something you can talk about, you know, even with your family yeah. Something you don’t need to be a gamer or a specific type of profile to do it.
Yeah. So yeah, I was thinking it was time for me to change industries.
Grace: And that’s great. Yeah. If your grandmother can explain to her friends what you do for a living, then, you know, you’ve hit it,
Safa: couldn’t be prouder. You know,
Grace: it’s like, I dunno, she does something with games
What’s next for Safa
Grace: and what’s next? What would you like to achieve? What’s your next step?
Safa: Honestly, like for now, I’m still considering myself. I think developers should always look at the levels. Although some people refuse to put labels like junior mid or senior, I think. Yeah. I think for me, I put myself as a mid level developer and I always wanted to be a senior one, but everyone has their own definition of like what is to be a senior developer.
So for me, it’s like at least mastering. Not even a coding language, mastering a whole process of like being able to go from a feature idea. And it designed that you have. To putting a proof of concept of it, then doing the whole feature implementation and planning it and working with other devs, like being able to collaborate.
Exactly. And then going through testing and like rolling out as a public feature and then fixing all the bugs that comes after it is like the experience that I want to really have, like seeing a feature, a big feature or a big product from the idea from the first step to the realization and then the maintenance of it.
Yeah. Yeah. So I really want to work on that specifically. Just do more maybe analysis work, not only like working on technical tickets. It’s like doing proof of concepts, bringing new tools to teams adding new packages. Yeah. For now. That’s my, I liked like to it, to look for short-term goals. Not like long-term goal because you never know, you never know.
Grace: I think it’s helpful for, for those long-term goals to have like a very broad vision of what I want my life to be rather than what career I want or what stage in my career. So I could say like in five years from now, I want it to be something where I have lots of flexibility. Where maybe I’m doing talks and conferences or something like that.
I have a great degree of autonomy and then exactly what that looks like on a granular level. We’ll figure that out as it goes.
Safa: Yeah, and we should never limit our ambitions. I’ve seen, in the companies, I worked at people switching career path, it in a weird way, still work. Like you can be now with the pulper and then like, you know what, in few years I want to be the digital designer.
You can do it. I don’t want to be a PA. A lot of them became recruiters like recruiter for developers. Like totally feasible. So Yeah, do not stop yourself. Do not say no, I cannot do it now. I’m too tired for that. And yeah, for now, like for me, I say sometimes, oh, maybe I’ll want to be a manager one day, or maybe I’ll want to be product manager, program manager, or maybe I want to go back to school and learn like ethical hacking, which is a good idea.
And then. Yeah, get into a new industry. So all that is possible. I don’t know if I’m going to do any of them or none, but still. Yeah.
Grace: I think the beautiful things about tech is that it is so vast and all of the skillsets are things that. Are achievable for someone who’s studying on their own. So it’s definitely possible for you.
If you have an interest in something to learn more about it and to find an application, especially if you’ve got it at your company to find somewhere where you could do some work on that, or you could find a community to volunteer with and to get some practical experience and then the pivot. And it’s totally fine to do these pivots because.
Our interests are going to shift as our life circumstances, as our goals shift is just our perspective is going to change. Yeah, so I think that’s totally fine.
Safa: Yeah. All right.
Safa’s experience as a Muslim woman in tech
Grace: So in your experience that you’ve worked with these big companies what’s been your experience as a Muslim woman in tech working there.
Safa: I say I was lucky, honestly, I’ve been like the two companies I’ve been at, I’ve never been, I’ve never felt that I’m labeled, as oh, that hijabi girl, or even that girl.
You know, because in tech and development, a lot of people , feel like, oh, it’s the girl developer in the team. I do take care like I search a lot before joining any company about the culture. And I try to feel the atmosphere there from the interviews. I try to know more about the culture of the company and how they interact with each other and how teams are made the relationship inside the team between the teammates.
So, yeah, I was lucky they have both unity and Microsoft, very good culture and a very inclusive they looking for a diverse team. They encouraging us to make small communities or ERGs of like, yeah, women ERG or Muslim people ERG. even like you know, religious base race space and a different orientation space.
I felt more encouraged, you know and more empowered because they want to show the other example of women in computer science. That they can thrive. They can be at some leadership position. They can be good developers. So yeah, I remember unity, took a lot of pictures of us and they actually like posted, eh, publicly everywhere.
And they’re like social media and they had me, like, they didn’t, it didn’t bother them like to have a hijabi girl on their posters for like career posting. And I guess, same thing, like the new tech companies, we shouldn’t be scared of that because we’re not doing anything wrong. That’s me. And if you like it, you take it.
You don’t like it. Well, Too bad for you. We should have this spirit,
Grace: no, but mashallah I’m really happy that you had that really positive experience. I hope that continues. I really like hearing that you have had so much support and such a growth spirit around you.
Safa: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think we should not like stop ourselves . Sometimes I feel like we do it for ourselves because we were just too scared and I have that, like, I blamed myself too.
Sometimes we’re too scared to go out of our comfort zone because, oh, what are they going to say? And I feel like we’re like feeling overwhelmed with. Like I’m holding the reputation of all Muslim girls. No, you just call them yourself. Yeah. And do whatever you want. And yeah. Ask for more money, ask for a better position, you know, you’re worth it.
Grace: I’m wondering if you had any advice because we’re still very, fairly early on in your career. If you had advice for people getting started doing the job hunt, especially for those larger companies. So for interviewing or, or for networking to get into those types of jobs.
Advice for getting a role at larger tech companies
Safa: It’s two aspects. First of all, the technical aspect you need to prepare very well. There are companies like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, apple, all of them. Exactly. It’s the same style of interviews. It’s not related to something you did before or a certain language. You can choose the language you want to do.
It’s mainly like algorithmic. They want to see the way like your reasoning goals and how good can you be? Like in doing very performance algorithm, like with a lower complexity that consumes the less time and less memory. So it’s preparation. It’s really go back as like a college student and do their websites lead code, codility. There’s a lot that had like a bench, thousands of algorithms and you can run them, you can test them and you can find solutions after. So it’s like practice, practice, practice. You need to do a lot. And every day, if you can to like, just get your mind used to those kinds of algorithmic questions.
And the other side of it is communication. Because there’ll be other interviews with the hiring manager or with the recruiter. Just be yourself and do not lie. I feel like, especially for young people, just starting, they want, I understand, like you want to show off what you did.
So they kind of overdescribe what , they’re doing this. Like I did an apps. Nobody did before. It’s going to like revolutionize the whole world. No, don’t be like that. It’s like, yeah, you playing on your credibility. Just say how this, and even like the smallest things you do talk about them.
Be communicative and listening, like active listening in the same time. Yeah. I guess this is the key communication and also preparation for technical stuff. You can get there. And do not stop for the first refusals, like know people in Google. Yeah. They tried for two times, three times until they get there.
Grace: The refusal, isn’t something personal. It’s a sign that there’s something else to work on. So I think it’s really helpful if you do get a note to just send them an email and ask for some feedback to improve and you know, even every, every time that something happens, it’s a learning experience.
If something good happens, it’s a learning experience, but it’s effective when it’s something negative or if we fail at something. There’s so much material for us to learn how to improve what we’re missing out on. It’s very valuable feedback. You don’t have to hang all of your self worth on one interview, You shouldn’t do that. You should be interviewing at multiple places at the same time and increase your chances and get better feedback. Be a better candidate.
Safa: Exactly. Yeah. It’s gets with practice. You can get there and also do not like it’s not the end of the world if you didn’t get into like a company that is known. it’s the opposite.
Like these big companies it’s good. Maybe they have a lot of perks, but also the learning experience there is less than in startups, because in startups and smaller companies, you get to be more autonomous. Work harder on yourself because there is no one else. Probably like you’re the only that the scientists in the team, or you’re the only, I don’t know, designer.
To do things on your own and like to look for resources outside the company, while in big companies, you always have someone for everything. Your area of expertise is very limited. So everything has beneficial.
Grace: But on the flip side, sometimes the pressure of working in a startup is a lot because there’s a lot on just a very small number of people.
So it really depends on each person has a different work, style, different pace that they like. And so I think that the whole process just have this that twawakul that Allah’s going to guide you to the position that’s the right place for you to be in at the right time. And yeah, alhamdulillah, it’ll work out.
Safa: I always think of work as like, as we say risq from Allah.
Yeah. If it’s written for you to come, if it’s not written, there’s something else. I used to read it for you. So don’t be scared. And yeah, as you said, tawakul. Leave it on Allah., you do your part of things. you work hard, you prepare yourself and then it’s all on Allah.
Grace: My mom used to say, when I was growing up, do your best and God will do the rest.
She have lots of little rhymes.
Safa: I love it. I love it. It really summarizes everything. That’s a nice motto to have in life. It’s a very
Grace: easy one to remember too. So when I was going off from my exams, do your best, God will do the rest.
Yeah, she’s a good mom, mashAllah
Ameen and your mom as well, all of our moms, ameen.,
What Safa is most proud of
Grace: what is the thing that you’re most proud of and why is it so special for you?
Safa: Most proud of, you know, I tend to be not proud person. Like I’m always self-sabotaging self-sabotage and I’m like, yeah, you know, there’s like, oh, there’s nothing I did, but I do.
I think. The fact that I left my hometown the age of 18, you know, still young. And I always used to live with my parents. To go in another city, 500 kilometers away from my parents to start my university. And it was like the hardest two years. Of my life, because it was like maths, math, and physics.
And then at the age of 20, I went to France and the fact that France wasn’t easy, honestly, for a hijabi girl. And especially at that young age, you don’t really know how to survive. So yeah. And then actually finishing my masters in Canada and all that, the pro the part I’m proud of is like, None of my parents had to pay for my education.
So I had to like struggle my way in with scholarships. Yeah. From my universities, my country. Yeah. I’m really proud of that. Cause my parents couldn’t afford that. And yeah, I still made it work and I think I’m gonna try to make it work for my younger siblings. Like try to pay for their education if they want to come to Canada or they want to go to somewhere else.
So I feel, yeah, that’s part of my lifetime product. And then actually like go into Western countries for someone who was born and raised. Muslim country and not giving up on your principles. This is very important. And we should really make sure to raise our kids in a way not to protect them from everything outside that is maybe harm or wrong. But make them resistant enough that even if they live in the worst place on earth, they’ll keep on being the same person and keep their relationship with God and, their engagement to their religion. There’s ups and downs, but it’s still always there.
Grace: MashAllah. I’m really glad that you brought that up. When I was a new parent, that’s something I was really going back and forth about how shelter, should we make the kids how protected should be have them?
I think we sort of decided that we live in the UK. They’re going to be adults and they’re going to have any interacting with all sorts of different people. They need to grow up with a very strong conviction of who they are believe that not just because we, as parents are telling them that, but to really identify with it for themselves.
And that’s really the only way to equip them with those skills as adults. So yeah, so that’s a journey. It’s growing up with those convictions and having confidence in who you are and in relating to God.
Safa: That. Whenever you will feel a bit far away from God, you have the opinion being lost. I do at least. So it’s nice, like living just close to Allah, you know, even the worst situation that you can be put in, they look very small.
They look very like. It’s not a big deal because you have Allah by your side alhamdulillah ,
Grace: you know, we don’t need anything else except for Allah. Whenever I feel like I need, I’m feeling that distance. I go back to the 99 names and I start thinking about how each of those are relating to me and how Allah is showing up in my life and all of these different ways alhamdulillah.
And I always, I always feel this way when I. Focusing on that connection with our creator, you know, rabbul Alameen everything just falls right into place again, alhamdulillah.
Safa: That’s a good practice. Yeah. That’s a good idea. You know, I mean, I should do that. Yeah.
What Safa regrets
Grace: So Safa, what is something in your journey that you regret or you wish that you did differently?
Safa: Yeah. That’s nice question. I think mainly it’s more like psychological habits that I had. I told you already about self-sabotage or feeling the imposter syndrome, for example, at work and giving up to it of now they’re better than me.
I’m not a good developer or I’ll never be good enough. We all have it, but we should never give up . Consider it as like, it’s just shite, honestly, like wrong ideas. And this is not true. Also. Yeah, not really focusing on work-life balance . You just want to prove yourself and you know, you work hard, extra hours. . People who work with you, they just do their hours and they’re fine. They still get away with it. Like work is just a part of your life. It’s not your whole life. You should always like give time to family talk to yourself then to Allah and yeah. And then time for work.
That’s it. So that was one mistake I made, just after graduating, I just, yeah. Focused too much on work. And yeah, the fact that You put too much stress and you bring yourself down by comparing yourself to other developers while they really think good of you. They really like, look at your PRS or your code contributions.
And they’re like, oh, she did well, but you don’t know that because you’re always like, no, this is not good enough. That perfectionist, as they say, like, perfect is the opposite of good. So do good code, not perfect code.
Grace: That’s right. Yeah. You want your code to be clean and maintainable. No one really expect perfect code. They just want to be able to read it and use it.
Safa: Okay. Actually. Yeah. And then a few years, probably there’s a new come and change it. So yeah,
Grace: your code, isn’t going to be a legacy system yourself. And I like what you said about, you know, not having to work those extra hours, your company, isn’t going to care if you’re doing 10, 12 hour days.
You’re only getting paid for eight hours.
Safa: Exactly. Exactly. There’s no point of it. No point in proving yourself with. is not maintainable on term. Can you see, look at your day and you know, very well that you’re not going to keep on doing 12 hours a day or 11 hours a day for like 40 years. So why exactly I knew would give wrong expectations.
So you’re like, oh, this person is able to do, I don’t know, 40 story points per week. Now you’re only able to do like 30. So why would you give like yeah, impress people the wrong way. Yeah, exactly.
Grace: Yeah, there’s a lot in there a hundred, but that is, that is a very typical thing that people who are new will do.
Just because you want, you’re so eager, so keen to do your best work, to give a good impression. Yeah. It’s okay. You don’t have to do that
Safa: overachiever. Lot of overachievers sick and the tech industry. Yeah, we need to stop. We gotta stop guys. That’s it?
What Safa’s most grateful for
Grace: Yeah. Okay. And what is someone or something that you’re most grateful for?
Safa: Someone, first of all, mom. She should be at my place. Honestly, she’s the one who went through all the struggles with me. She cried with me when I cried, She was happy for me. She was always pushing me forward. Like my mom is my best friend. She’s my therapist, my everything. So first of all, mom, of course. I wouldn’t have survived.
Yeah without her. And then yeah, you find along your way, very nice people that push you forward . I remember the most remarkable one is a guy developer named Ashley Simpson. He worked with me unity, and he wasn’t really just a normal coworker. He was someone who wants to like, like, I do look up at him and like, Everyone to succeed.
It’s not like he’s only thinking about himself and honestly, who would come to me and he’s like, yeah, for example, sometimes Safa you need to ask for more money. It’s not enough for you, you know? Or sometimes he would be like, okay, this feature is too, you find it too hard, but you’re going to work on it.
And he takes like, he stays extra hours with me, explain everything. He gives me like resources. To learn more. I wouldn’t have been the developer. I am today with this growth mindset without him. He’s like the person you should do every morning, at least one hour before he start work. And doing something else, like going through a tutorial, going through a medium article I dunno, checking up a repo on GitHub and see how they did that thing.
Or I don’t know, working on your personal project. So he had that growth mindset and he didn’t keep it to himself. He. One of the whole team, like he asks manager for different subscription to different learning platforms. And he really pushed that forward. And even like, culturally, I remember when I just joined and unity is to offer like food and stuff and food wasn’t halal.
So I would eat just the vegetarian option and he’s like, well, are eating lunch there? It’s not halal. So he went, he’s not even Muslim. And he went to the caterer and he’s like, I eat halal, can you bring halal food? And they actually started bringing meat. I know he is amazing. He really deserves to be, I dunno, CEO or something and I’m sure he’s gonna be.
Thank you super successful wherever he goes. It blossoms. That’s it? Yeah. Shout out
Grace: to him and Sharla. That’s amazing. So he’s a mentor and he’s a true ally. That’s really
Safa: nice. Fred nice coworker. It was very nice. Like working with him. Yeah. I’ll never forget what he did for me.
Grace: Well that’s. That is really nice mashallah.
Safa: Told you I was lucky. I was. So
Grace: you had some good connections as well.
Grace: So Safa, is there anything else that you want to say? Any last bits or things that we didn’t cover?
Safa: No just, I want to say to a bigger guy, tech, you can do it. And really it’s not just a motto work hard and don’t do not think about the results.
Just say I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. I’m working hard and put myself there in the market. I’ll go, go through 80 interviews, 102 people, the number 101, you will get it, you know, so do not stop yourself. Yeah. And once you get to a company to now be like, to not humble yourself, because we do it a lot, women, like in terms of salaries and stuff. It’s not that men are paid more.
It’s just, we negotiate less. That’s the thing I discovered. It’s not that we are paid less, we just accept less stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. Just, no, I don’t like it. And yeah, even practice that in. Like, if you want to get promoted, then you think you deserve it. You fight for it.
Grace: And a big part of that is educating yourself on what is the median salary for your range and talking to other people, especially the men in that company.
So, you know what is an acceptable amount to ask, which is usually way higher than your instincts.
Safa: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. True transparency in salaries inside the team. It’s actually. It’s the best,
Grace: I loved talking to you. I think this is a beautiful conversation. I’m so happy you came on.
Safa: I’m happy to have met you, grace, and I’m so proud of the work.
You’re doing your brilliant inspiration and now knowing that you work and you’re a mom to make things you’re a role model, honestly.
Grace: Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Safa’s story, please consider following us and leaving a review. If you like today’s episode, that really helped us a lot. inshAllah. We want to be able to grow and reach everybody who needs to hear these stories. So things like following us leaving a review, sharing it with your friends, especially that really helps to get the word out there and help more people discover Tech Sisters and the amazing stories that we have here. And if you are a Muslim woman in tech, please go ahead and join our community on slack. It’s free, It’s fun, It’s very supportive. And, uh, yeah, that’s all for me. And I’ll see you next week. Salaam